Gavin's Blog - Latest Comments in My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Userwense — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:22:38 -0000

Snx for you job!
It has very much helped me!

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Bo — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:27:49 -0000

I'd like to add another perspective to this discussion which may be of some interest: I remember John Gray from the time he was Maharishi's secretary in the 70:s in Switzerland. I recall this was the time when Maharishi International University was becoming established and accredited. Among the people working for him, Maharishi wanted (and want) some chosen people who had showed dedication or talent, to be awarded doctoral degrees. Because he is the founder of all the Maharishi universities and because all the faculty members were and are TM (Transcendental Meditation)-devotees, these degrees were issued without much discussion although some doubts were raised from faculty member with "real" hard-earned degrees. It was well known that even the president of Maharishi International University did not have "real" doctorate but a "bestowed" degree. Even in the 90:s when Maharishi resided in Holland this practice has been going on. I have no comments on that in itself. These individuals are dedicated and effective in their service to the TM movement. I suppose it can be compared to recieving an "honorary doctorate". It has nothing to do with academic achievements but it sure raises the person's status in the TM movement. As a representative for TM is has further been found that an academic degree helps a lot in spreading the message. As I understand it, Gray is not associated with TM anymore but he still likes to use his degree from Maharishi's university. Since TM partly has a cult label that is it not completely without problems which Gray could have forseen. I must add that I'm not resident of US and not associated with the movement anymore so reg the accreditation status of Maharishi's universities I am not updated at all. I also have no information about Gray's credentials from institutions outside the TM movement.
BL

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Jack Payne — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:02:59 -0000

The word "fraud" next to someone's name is a dynamite combination, often guaranteed to explode in your face. I don't care whether it's used as fact, opinion, or question.

With this word, discretion is the better part of, well, you know what.

--Jack Payne
www.sixhrs.com

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

david — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 20:07:01 -0000

This is exactly why bloggers should largely stay out of the journalism game unless they know anything about libel. Simply reprinting, or reposting something published elsewhere is no defense against libel. You still have to attempt to verify any statements of fact. Also, simply posting a correction won't get you anywhere in a court of law. There have been large settlements for statements that were retracted the next day.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

poker free — Sat, 10 Jun 2006 19:05:51 -0000

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Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Casey — Wed, 24 May 2006 23:26:24 -0000

I am interested to know the outcome of this. I was recently fired for publishing in my blog the statement that "My boss is a dick." I have been researching, trying to determine if this is libel, since that is what my employer claimed.

Good luck, and keep blogging.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Sick of Threats By Washed Up F — Sat, 11 Feb 2006 08:45:19 -0000

This is so pathetic that Dr John Gray will stoop this low...I saw the show on Penn & Teller where they indicated from their research that Dr John Gray has a degree from some defunct online university,so is he going after them too...he was actually on their show,why didn't the winer bitch when they completely debunked him...

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

big al — Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:06:32 -0000

don't buy the tortured claim that saying 'fraud' is key here since you obviously meant 'misleading' and a PhD from a diploma mill is misleading.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Anne — Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:10:08 -0000

Please Do post the out come.Its very intersting case.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

lee jones — Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:01:07 -0000

"The author of [....] John Gray, is a fraud."

What do you expect? Just publish a retraction and save yourself some grief.
Hardly worth fighting over...

I agree

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

martin — Sun, 30 May 2004 11:37:03 -0000

Hey I would just do what they asks its no big deal and why do you want to cause yourself all this aggro.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Emily — Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:32:33 -0000

Toe-bay's hit the nail on the head. Simply replace "fraud" with the word "idiot". Surely he has no legal recourse for your expressing an opinion.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

toe-bay — Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:17:40 -0000

An ear;ier poster said

"But if we expressed it as an opinion, or a question, it probably wouldn't be considered libel. I don't remember if quoting another source would be considered libel." Posted by: Sherri at March 19, 2004 08:40 AM

Why dont you just add a Question mark at the end of the word fraud. john gray...Fraud?

Hope john gray gets a life? and starts prosecuting real criminals?

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

maca — Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:05:17 -0000

Man no wonder...

"The author of [....] John Gray, is a fraud."

What do you expect? Just publish a retraction and save yourself some grief.
Hardly worth fighting over...

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Jesus of Nazareth — Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:22:18 -0000

As someone who's been faculty myself, I wonder if you have a reasonable defense on the grounds of truth. Consider this analogy: I go to my friend, the artist, and he draws me a very nice "driver's license" which asserts I have the right to drive anywhere in the State of California, and is covered in official-looking script and seals. He makes it look as much as possible like the real license issued by the State, but he makes sure that it is, in fact, legally distinguishable via some fine print somewhere on the back.

Now I go out for drinks with the mates. Everyone but me gets blasted, oh dear. So one of my mates turns to me and says (weaving a little from side to side, holding out the car keys): Say, can you drive? You do you have a California driver's license, right? And I say: you bet! and I wave my "license" briefly in front of his bleary eyes, which, without benefit of a mental focussing effort which he far too gone to supply, looks genuine. Off we go. . .

Have I been a fraud? I'd say so. What my friends *meant* -- what any reasonable person would mean -- when they said "do you have a driver's license?" is: do you have a driver's license issued by the State of California? Certainly NOT: do you have an object which someone, somewhere has earnestly asserted to be a "California driver's license." And, of course, I would know that. I would quite consciously be trying to deceive them. With a good chance of doing harm, depending on what happens when I take the wheel. That is, I would indeed be committing a fraud.

Now just substitute "Ph.D. degree" for "driver's license" in the analogy.

That is, when someone says "I have a Ph.D.", ask yourself what a reasonable man thinks it means. Surely he thinks it means: "I have a Ph.D. from an accredited institution of higher learning." Certainly NOT: I have a piece of paper that has the words 'Ph.D.' and my name on it issued by any old collection of random fools. Hell, if that were not the case, why would anyone pay all that money to get a "real" college degree? Why not just form a neighborhood association and charge each other $50 for a "diploma"?

And if this were *not* the case, if accreditation were a purely optional oak-leave-cluster part of a degree, just a nice finishing touch, and in particular if the the people of the State of California, as represented by their government, were not firmly convinced that this university in particular was gravely misleading people when it asserted its graduates had a "Ph.D. degree" in the common-sense meaning of that phrase, then the State would not have shut the place down. It seems to me the State's action is tantamount to an assertion that the university's "degrees" were *not* degrees in the usual meaning of the word.

And, of course, this fellow knows that. That's why he's upset.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Mac Diva — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:33:48 -0000

You don't need to do anything, Gavin. Even if Gray were to go forward, truth is a complete defense to defamation. From what I've heard, his doctorate IS from a diploma mill.

I don't buy the tortured claim that saying 'fraud' is key here since you obviously meant 'misleading' and a PhD from a diploma mill is misleading.

If I were you, I would be thinking of a way to turn this harassment to my advantage. After all, Gray has millions. Why not come up with a way to get him to share?

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Phillip Barnhart — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:36:31 -0000

Why has no one questioned the SECOND half of that letter . . . The National Academy for Certified Family Therapists? Mmmm. If it is the same organization I am thinking about, it went through quite a few issues, emerging finally as The National Credentialing Academy - sponsored by International Association of Marriage and Family Counselors. I doubt that he could get certified by this NCA today with those educational credentials; it certainly seems to fall short of their current requirements. You should check (www.natlacad.4t.com) and see if he is still certified. As for ACA membership, that just takes a check :-)

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Jarvis — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:33:34 -0000

I am an attorney, and let me say that Bronson is wrong, you can be sued in California, it would have jurisdiction over you. (For the lawyers, the case is Calder v. Jones, 465 US 783 (1984). A case almost directly on point, and has been applied by the Ninth Circuit in internet cases). The law student who posted otherwise really has no idea what he is talking about.

Besides the issue of whether you can be haled into California courts, I would be certain that no attorney in their right mind would do so because they would have zero chance of success on the merits. Your statement is clearly an assertion of opinion, not of fact, (see the Larry Flynt case). End of story.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Joe Baby — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:28:57 -0000

Gray and his Atty's picked up a rock and started a landslide.

Sidebar: is it a "real" university if they don't have a fightsong?

P.S. There's no "there" there!

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Christopher Miller — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:24:50 -0000

I'm not a lawyer, but you should comply. Gray never said his degrees were from acredited schools. Just comply with their request and list what his actual "degrees" are in. I think that Gray is an idiot. More people will know that his degrees are BS because of the attention he brought to your blog.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Owen — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:23 -0000

Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. John Gray may be from Uranus.

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Anonyman — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:49:14 -0000

California Code of Civil Procedure

Sec. 425.16. Claim Arising from Person's Exercise of Constitutional Right of Petition or Free Speech -- Special Motion to Strike.

(a) The Legislature finds and declares that there has been a disturbing increase in lawsuits brought primarily to chill the valid exercise of the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and petition for the redress of grievances. The Legislature finds and declares that it is in the public interest to encourage continued participation in matters of public significance, and that this participation should not be chilled through abuse of the judicial process. To this end, this section shall be construed broadly.

(b) (1) A cause of action against a person arising from any act of that person in furtherance of the person's right of petition or free speech under the United States or California Constitution in connection with a public issue shall be subject to a special motion to strike, unless the court determines that the plaintiff has established that there is a probability that the plaintiff will prevail on the claim. (2) In making its determination, the court shall consider the pleadings, and supporting and opposing affidavits stating the facts upon which the liability or defense is based. (3) If the court determines that the plaintiff has established a probability that he or she will prevail on the claim, neither that determination nor the fact of that determination shall be admissible in evidence at any later stage of the case, and no burden of proof or degree of proof otherwise applicable shall be affected by that determination.

(c) In any action subject to subdivision (b), a prevailing defendant on a special motion to strike shall be entitled to recover his or her attorney's fees and costs. If the court finds that a special motion to strike is frivolous or is solely intended to cause unnecessary delay, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney's fees to a plaintiff prevailing on the motion, pursuant to Section 128.5.

(d) This section shall not apply to any enforcement action brought in the name of the people of the State of California by the Attorney General, district attorney, or city attorney, acting as a public prosecutor.

(e) As used in this section, "act in furtherance of a person's right of petition or free speech under the United States or California Constitution in connection with a public issue" includes: (1) any written or oral statement or writing made before a legislative, executive, or judicial proceeding, or any other official proceeding authorized by law; (2) any written or oral statement or writing made in connection with an issue under consideration or review by a legislative, executive, or judicial body, or any other official proceeding authorized by law; (3) any written or oral statement or writing made in a place open to the public or a public forum in connection with an issue of public interest; (4) or any other conduct in furtherance of the exercise of the constitutional right of petition or the constitutional right of free speech in connection with a public issue or an issue of public interest.
(f) The special motion may be filed within 60 days of the service of the complaint or, in the court's discretion, at any later time upon terms it deems proper. The motion shall be noticed for hearing not more than 30 days after service unless the docket conditions of the court require a later hearing.

(g) All discovery proceedings in the action shall be stayed upon the filing of a notice of motion made pursuant to this section. The stay of discovery shall remain in effect until notice of entry of the order ruling on the motion. The court, on noticed motion and for good cause shown, may order that specified discovery be conducted notwithstanding this subdivision.

(h) For purposes of this section, "complaint" includes "cross-complaint" and "petition," "plaintiff" includes "cross-complainant" and "petitioner," and "defendant" includes "cross-defendant" and "respondent."

(i) On or before January 1, 1998, the Judicial Council shall report to the Legislature on the frequency and outcome of special motions made pursuant to this section, and on any other matters pertinent to the purposes of this section.

(j) An order granting or denying a special motion to strike shall be appealable under Section 904.1.

(k) (1) Any party who files a special motion to strike pursuant to this section, and any party who files an opposition to a special motion to strike, shall, promptly upon so filing, transmit to the Judicial Council, by e-mail or fax, a copy of the endorsed-filed caption page of the motion or opposition, a copy of any related notice of appeal or petition for a writ, and a conformed copy of any order issued pursuant to this section, including any order granting or denying a special motion to strike, discovery, or fees.

(2) The Judicial Council shall maintain a public record of information transmitted pursuant to this subdivision for at least three years, and may store the information on microfilm or other appropriate electronic media.

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY: Added by Stats.1992, c. 726 (SB 1264), sec. 2. Amended by: Stats.1993, c. 1239 (SB 9), sec. 1, adding subd. (i) and substituting "shall" for "may" preceding "award costs" in subd. (c); Stats.1997, c. 271 (SB 1296), sec. 1, adding last sentence in subd. (a), adding subd. (e)(4), numbering subds. (e)(1)-(3), moving second sentence of subd. (g) to be second sentence of subd. (f), adding new subd. (h), and relettering former subd. (h) as subd. (i); and Stats.1999, c. 960 (AB 1675), sec. 1, adding subds. (j) and (k).

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Bronson — Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:07:19 -0000

Gavin,
I'm no lawyer (yet), so please don't take this as anything like legal advice. I think your uncertainty about what to do is founded, and the question of whether Mr./Dr./Con-man? Gray can do anything to you is certainly not easily decided in his favor.

1. California courts CANNOT touch you directly unless you fall under their long-arm statutes. I don't think anybody could argue with any weight that your blog constitutes regular and substantial contact with the state of California.

2. If they want to sue you, they will *probably* have to do so in your home-country. Then, your liability will be determined by your local laws, NOT California laws.

3. How do you know the email is authentic? It's not YOUR job to chase down the sender's identity. I don't know that the email can truly serve as notice, since you don't have anything post-marked from them. Again, I don't know, but I think they've got a real problem.

4. Defamation/libel law in America is not all that clear-cut on this issue. As a celebrity, Mr./Dr./Con-man? Gray has to prove malice in your post to be able to recover, and disgust probably won't get him there. Your accusation, which the lawyers have characterized as "libel per se" is not necessarily correct. If you had said "he's committing fraud" then that would be more clearly libel per se. You do seem to be indicating that he is not qualified to do his job, but not that he is unable to perform it competently, which is another way to prove "libel per se."

For what it's worth, I think you're probably on good ground and fairly well out of Mr./Dr./Con-man? Gray's reach since you are in another country. If you DO have significant contact with California DIRECTLY by your own actions (I don't think that publishing a blog which is available to the whole world can be characterized in that manner), then you will probably have to take the threat more seriously. If so (or if you just want to have fun in American courts), get a good (California) attorney and tell your adversaries, "Make me, ya bunch of bottom-feeding butt-plugs!"

As a resident of a foreign nation, you can get this into Federal Court which will be more expensive for THEM. I would check into whether you would have much chance of getting yor attorney fees reimbursed if/when you win.

Keep us posted!
B.
(I am not an attorney, and nothing I have written should be taken as legal advice!)

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

Colonel Ribby Knish — Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:20:54 -0000

I'm going on the record here and now:

"Dr." John Gray is a pederast, a panty-sniffer, a card-carrying communist, a Ku Klux Klansman, a wife-beater, a space alien, a cartoon character named "Poopy," a hermaphrodite, and a slob - in my opinion.

ribby knish

Re: My blog has been threatened with legal action by author John Gray

novalis — Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:09:49 -0000

James, law firms have a large installed base of WP. It's not luddism -- it's tradition. Anyway, they're probably not using wp5.1 for DOS -- they're using the latest, which is more-or-less the same as Word or OpenOffice.